When and how did you get to meet FZ?
We first met ‘backstage’ at a concert at the Indiana State Fairgrounds Coliseum (then the largest music venue in central Indiana) on October 19, 1971. I could get backstage at concerts having a little more résumé than many fans. Through this process I met other devoted fans including Vaughn Wiester, a musician from Columbus Ohio who still leads a jazz band there today. Vaughn later made me aware of a help wanted note in the Warner Circular, an organ of the record label. It came from David Walley who was writing a book about Frank (No Commercial Potential) and wanted a bibliography. I offered to do it because I compulsively clipped and saved anything in print that mentioned Frank, and had a large reference library for that 100% analogue, search by hand era. He agreed, I did the bibliography, and Frank wanted to talk. So began calls and in-person meetings until his diagnosis and his illness symptoms became severe.

How old were you when he met him?
28.

Given that you first met Frank in October 1971, I’m assuming Karen Sperling would have been around?
I don’t know the name Karen Sperling. I recall Frank was with Gail when I met him in 1971.

You were in Chicago for the Halloween 73 shows, so I assume Jenny Brown was around?
General comment about the women you’ve asked about: if I met them they may have been introduced with nicknames, but if any wanted to talk about the music I would certainly have done that.
    I don’t know the name Jenny Brown.

How did the idea of the fanzine, that became Mother’s Home Journal, come about?
I can only identify the factors that generated it, and can’t pinpoint an ‘aha’ moment. The idea was mine. I was well aware of underground newspapers because I represented one that was barred from public schools and helped start federal litigation in 1972 and ultimately argued the case before the US Supreme Court (1975). Another factor was that I wrote a student newspaper column weekly for three years during college called The Gadfly. I discussed the idea with Frank who approved and gave it the name Mother’s Home Journal. Every issue was reviewed and approved by him before it went out. He never disapproved of anything, but did offer information and thoughts that made it better.

Do you play an instrument?
Yes, drums. Frank and Gail strongly disagreed with my feeling that percussion was inherently less challenging than instruments with more tonal range (think Varèse and Ionisation etc.)

What do you think made Frank take an interest in you?
I was the first full time director of the ACLU of Indiana, was a Harvard Law grad not pursuing income, handled first amendment and other constitutional issues like the one mentioned above, had a lifelong interest in classical music and jazz (my drum teacher formed the first group in Indianapolis with Wes Montgomery). Frank of course had a career long interest in legal issues, classical music, jazz, and I was not another one of the dozen grey attorneys.

What did you think of Frank when you met him – and did that view change with time?
That he was a force of nature. That view never changed.

I presume music was the focus of your discussions and time together?
We talked about a broad range of subjects and music was only one. We also sat and listened to music together. That also covered a broad range, not just material he was working on.

Did you coin the term ‘Petit Wazoo’?
The term is such an obvious variation on Grand Wazoo, there's not much of a step to it, but as far as I knew at the time I was the first using it. I used it in issue 7 of Mother's Home Journal. It's in a review of Over-Nite Sensation: “Anyway, the Grand Wazoo, Petit Wazoo (my name), and current Mothers have meant a lot of music with no vocalist per se except Frank.”

Did you influence anything else – like any of FZ’s lyrics?
I may have influenced, probably yes but I never talked about things like that with Frank. I was interested in his myriad of influences from music, history, politics, family, etc. and any questions I discussed with Frank would have had nothing to do with me. Lacking confirmation from the creator, I won't speculate. Obvious moments like the intro to the1973 Halloween concert at the Auditorium Theatre in Chicago aren't lyrics, of course, but there's no doubt about the mention.

How often did you have contact with him and until what date?
I spent a week with him in LA when he was in a wheelchair, recovering from the attack, and rehearsing a new band. I went on segments of tours with him for years after that.

Tell me about your interactions with Frank’s band members over the years.
I must say that I don’t now and didn’t then pay much attention to people who floated in and out of the various entourages unless they were interested in the music per se or the larger issues of the day.
    The continuing interactions with band members over the years that stand out were with drummers Chester Thompson and Ralph Humphrey, both fine humans. They would get in touch when they were in town. For example, I remember meeting Chester after Genesis shows in the area, and Ralph after Al Jarreau.

Okay. We obviously know quite a bit about most of Zappa’s musicians, so are you able to share any thoughts or insights on any of his crew members – like John Smothers?
A wonderful man with a huge personality and great skill handling potential threats. We got to know each other well and stayed in touch for years.

And Marty Perellis?
We became good friends. He asked me to go to LA to see if Frank would change his mind about firing Herbie Cohen. Right before that, Frank had asked me to take over his management and I said I couldn’t because of my first son who was then a toddler. Today the toddler is a SVP with Wasserman Music based in Austin. I helped Marty set up a business in LA to provide tour transportation and other production services.

Dunt announced a proposed book which promises to “an enthralling and intimate exploration into the extraordinary life of Frank Zappa, as narrated by his closest confidant”. What can you tell me about Dunt?
Nothing.

You don’t remember him, or would prefer to say nothing?
I don’t remember any interactions with Dunt. I believe I met Arthur at a workshop where a device on a cheeseboard was being worked on to Frank’s specifications.

Ah, okay. What was your relationship with Gail like?
We liked each other, but Gail’s strong opinions and forceful personality required caution. She honoured me with her own synopsis of the Project/Object, and didn’t hesitate to say what she thought about anything I did or failed to do.

Likewise with Moon, Dweezil, Ahmet and Diva?
I only knew them as very young children when I visited at the house in Laurel Canyon. When I arranged a brief meeting with Dweezil at one of the Zappa Plays Zappa concerts, he had absolutely no idea who I was.

Have you read Moon’s memoir and, if so, does it paint a picture of the FZ you knew?
No.

Do you mean ‘no’ you haven’t read it, or ‘no’ it doesn’t paint a picture of the FZ you knew?
I have not read Moon’s book.

When did you last speak with Frank?
I can’t give you a date because it was an emotional blur after he was diagnosed. To this day, I have a painful feeling of loss. I talk about him when asked now that they both are gone because I want to bear witness to his importance, but it is never easy.

Presumably you remained in contact with Gail up until her passing?
Yes, in contact with Gail until near the end.

If Dweezil didn’t know you, I assume contact with the family ended after Gail died?
Yes, family contact ended with her death. If I had accepted Frank’s offer and stayed with him to the end, I expect I would have been in the midst of disagreements among the children after Gail’s death, and it would have been painful.

Have you remained in touch with anyone else from those days?
I remain in contact with a handful of devoted fans. My work and family were all consuming, and my failure to stop grieving the terrible loss was so inhibiting, I was very poor at responding to requests. And my legal training as mentioned was another barrier. My default position was that everything I knew was privileged unless already in the public domain or Gail said it was ok to talk. I checked with her on requests for interviews, etc.

Have you been able to keep up with all of the posthumous Zappa releases?
Yes, I’ve kept up with authorized posthumous releases. For example, I just got the Apostrophe 50th anniversary remaster. How important was that album? Uncle Remus was played at my wedding. George’s beautiful tune is the Yin, and Frank’s lyrics the Yang of that little gem.

That sounds like a good place to leave things. Thanks for your time, Craig.
I've felt privileged to be asked about Frank after all the decades of avoiding such questions. Best regards and my sincere gratitude.

Interview concluded on 22 January 2025. Image of most of page 1 of Issue 2 of Mother's Home Journal kindly provided by Craig, who "used it for a talk at the Kurt Vonnegut Museum and Library on Frank v. Censorship during Banned Books Week last fall." Photo of wheelchair-bound Frank taken by Craig with a 35mm SLR and sent to him and Gail; this appears uncredited in The Real Frank Zappa Book, "and that was always ok with me," says Craig.

Thanks to Avo Raup for the hook-up.